Closing thoughts on ideas and interests

                In addition to addressing whether ideas or interests are more instrumental in motivating the actions of states, much of the work in this field seems to also be focused on defining and conceptualizing what an idea is exactly. In my closing thoughts for this module I will first address the concept of an “idea” and then consider whether ideas or interests might have more influence on the actions or behavior of state actors in the international arena. This is all based on my understanding of the readings and observations of current and historic events.   

Regarding concepts of ideas and interests effecting policy and action in international relations, I thought that Laffey and Welds’ article added something significant to the conceptualization of ideas with the “symbolic technologies” metaphor. In many ways it refines some of the concepts of ideas brought up in Goldstein and Keohanes work. This refining was needed due to the available technology we have today; that is the lack of technology related to decoding the content of mental beliefs. Although, I also think there is something to be said for Goldstein and Keohanes categories of ideas which includes: world beliefs, principles, and causal beliefs. I spoke to this in a previous blog.

Laffey and Welds approach of analyzing ideas using language and symbols with an “agnostic” (as put by Laffey and Welds) view towards the content or existence of beliefs as mental phenomena might be more practical given the current lack of ability to measure mental phenomena in a way that would allow us to seamlessly apply it to methods used to explain the motivations of the actions of state actors on the international stage. That being said, it would be very interesting and may benefit our overall understanding of motivation if we could better measure mental phenomena within the individual and study its interactions with the symbolic technologies that are drawn from it. Looking at ideas through the lens of “symbolic technologies” and discounting the relationship that may exist between mental phenomena and the symbolic technologies which in some ways can be seen as extensions of mental phenomena may very well set limitations for our understanding of how ideas function in society and in effect influence policy, decisions, and actions. For example, considerations of what factors make ideas acceptable to different individuals may give analysts insight into the relative value of a given idea. From various observations it would seem that the value given to various ideas is significant in understanding it as a potential motivation for action when comparing it with that of other interests or ideas.  It should be noted that I am not claiming that these individually held beliefs in the form of mental processes are significant. Rather, I am suggesting that it should be proven empirically to be significant or otherwise as opposed to being held with an “agnostic” view. Lacking the ability to achieve this kind of empirical understanding Laffey and Welds approach may be the best for now but it should be understood that it potentially leaves out significant details regarding ideas.

Concerning the actual question of whether ideas or interests have more influence on the actions of actors in international relations, the answer seems very complicated based on observation of current events. In many cases they may coincide or work in unison towards motivating action. However, there are cases in which ideas or interests might come into conflict. In these circumstances it seems that the relative value given to each of the competing motivators will determine the action taken. It also seems that interests related to the survival of the state seem to outweigh most other ideas and interests. There also might be times in which a state acts against its own interest in favor of an idea that it holds at a greater value.

The other issue seems to be the relationship between ideas and interests themselves. Ideas seem to shape or at least be related to world views or categorical views as Laffey and Welds pointed out and these in turn can shape our preferences which are integral to our interests. Likewise, in a conflict between an interest and an idea (especially related to survival) a case of cognitive dissonance might come into play in which the idea is questioned and may be changed in favor of the interest. In both these cases we see that ideas and interests can influence each other as well as the actions of actors. 

Ideas

Recently, a lot of class has been taken up by trying to determine exactly how ideas are expressed in conflicts between states. We've had some good discussions on the subject, and I'm starting to come away from the conversations with different thoughts on ideas than I had before.

The concept of treating ideas like symbolic technologies is an interesting route to go on. To paraphrase an argument from the readings, page 217 of Laffey and Weldes, this is indeed like finding oneself buying into the mind set of a group after using the terminology of the group. The very act of using the terminology, language, and conceptions of a symbolic technology change one's own world view. That is the power of ideas. Almost like if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

It seems to me that the end result of this concept is that symbolic technologies define the world that an actor is living in. In the United States we see NATO as a guarantor of security for individual states. Russia sees NATO as a threat to its very existence. Is it any wonder that Russia would go so far as to annex Crimea to secure access to the Black Sea if there was even a hint of Ukraine becoming more friendly with NATO?

An article on RT, essentially an English language mouthpiece of the Kremlin, quotes a spokesman:

"The Kremlin has warned that NATO’s further advance towards Russia’s borders will entail counter measures.

“We must not forget that NATO is an organization that has been created during the time of confrontation and for confrontation, that’s why it cannot change its nature,” the Russian president’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters in Moscow, as cited by Sputnik.

“That is why any advancement by such an organization toward our borders will force us to take adequate counter-measures to safeguard own security, our national security,” Peskov said." https://www.rt.com/news/316237-poroshenko-ukraine-nato-outpost/

The mere existence of NATO is a threat to Russia. The annexation was not an act of aggression, it was essential to Russia's national security interests. This isn't a question of ideas vs interests, this is an example of the world view, the frame of mind, the symbolic technology defining the basic concept of the interest.

How are international policies shaped?

Would a country choose their ideology over their interests?  In what scenario would that ever happen?  After the class discussion tonight, it seems to me that the general consensus is such - countries will always choose their interests over their ideas EXCEPT in the case where their interests could possibly start WWIII.  Since no country is interested in actually starting WWIII, they will repress their interests to avoid war.  As one person in class said - "we aren't going to burn down the house with us inside it." 

So here's how I picture it: ideas shape interests which states act upon, then if the international perspective paints the action as being unfavorable, the state will then justify their action with another, more acceptable idea.  I think the only real exception to this is when a state's action puts global interests at risk - that's when international organizations such as the UN step in, world powers take notice and the state's interests have to be repressed for the good of the globe.  Careful negotiations have to take place, but disaster is avoided. 

Another image that came to mind is one of the ideas being the rails that the policy train starts on, then as the train continues down the track and new information is uncovered or different circumstances arise, the train is diverted along different rails so that the policy that the train ends up at is different than the ideologically driven track it started on.  Indeed, in this case, the train starts off with ideas and then ends up being diverted by interests until it ends up at an interest-driven policy.  Some policies are perhaps able to stay on the ideas-driven track, but the cynic in me believes that those are rare instances

Another thought that I wanted to bring up, but couldn't figure out a way to is this: the idea that the only states who can have idea-driven actions are the states whose interests are well in hand or well advanced.  For instance, I remember in a philosophy class the idea was mentioned that ancient civilizations only produced philosophers if their economy was sufficiently advanced to the point where the entire populace didn't have to worry about where their next meal was coming from.  In the same way, countries are not able to really act upon their ideals when they are not stable enough to ensure their interests.  In this way, the US is able to give foreign aid which could be argued to be driven by our ideals (though personally I think it's more likely a great PR stunt on the international stage while perhaps being interest-driven in ideas of future reciprocity) since we are pretty well assured of our interests.  I remain convinced that ideas and interests are so intertwined that we can't really tell where one begins and the other ends, or even if they do.  However, I must say that this topic has been very enjoyable to debate and explore.

Do states act with interests in mind or ideas?

According to Hobbs and Bull, politics works very differently in domestic politics (under sovereign) than in international politics (in anarchy). This epiphany seems a bit obvious to me because the key actors we encounter domestically (culture, beliefs, values) could very well be different from the key actors we encounter with internationally (culture, beliefs, values). Another theorist I researched states that “this difference between domestic and international politics requires us to think about each realm of politics separately” (Waltz). Both theories along with reading Ideas and Foreign Policy by Judith Goldstein and Robert Kehone got me thinking about the Ideas vs Interest argument and the question if states act with interest in mind or ideas. I think if you truly understand who you are interacting with then you will understand that ideas vs interest is not truly argument at all, maybe ideas and interest are not only intertwined but have a profound impact on how we interact with key actors on the international and domestic front.

Just as Sikkink states on pages 199-200 in Ideas and Foreign Policy by Judith Goldstein and Robert Kehone   “the separation of ideas of interest is fundamentally flawed. Political and ideological factors influence the very meaning and interpretation of economic ideas … “(material interest)”. I interpret this as saying, in order to really understand the key actors in the international playing field, you have to understand the birth of an idea and the intent or interest when in order to truly understand actors you may encounter. With this said, you really have to understand what the word idea truly means.

In Chapter 1 of Ideas and Foreign Policy by Judith Goldstein and Robert Kehone the concept of Ideas was defined as belief held by individuals. Hmm…beliefs held by individuals, is it that simple? 

That statement got me thinking… in order to solidify my opinion on Ideas vs. Interests, I first must understand the meaning of the word idea. So I did some research, the word idea comes from the Greek word of idein which means “to see” I did further research and found the durative of  idein was eidos which means “the formed content of a culture encompassing its’s systems of ideas, criteria interpreting experience” (Plato).  I interpret this as saying to me that there is a connection between ideas and culture which means ideas may come from within but the culture and systems you are born into or grow up in have a profound impact on your ideas and thinking in turn, will define the level of interest(self-interest as stated in our live session).  I mention this because doesn’t ones interest and how committed you are to that interest derives from ones experiences and cultural ideas? Whether you agree with them or not, it will behoove you to make an effort to understand the connection between ones ideas and interests (arises when external conflict or constraints are present) when developing policy, policy changes, or just trying to understand where a person is coming from. 

More on ideas and their impact

           From the material I have come across some new concepts giving greater dimension to the ideas that influence decision making by international actors. The dimension was added by looking at ideas in the divided form of “world views”, “causal beliefs”, and “Principle Beliefs” which were all introduced on pages 8,9, and 10 in the work by Goldstein and Keohane. Considering these types of beliefs or ideas with concepts from other courses and from the class discussion, I have come to develop some initial conclusions.  

The concept of ideas categorized under “world view” brought me back to the intercultural relations class from last semester. Goldstein and Keohane state that “world views are in the symbolism of culture and deeply affect the modes of thought and discourse.” In the previous course, Professor Gary Weaver discussed beliefs and cognition at length. They were described as the base of culture and even described as being able to shape how individuals of that culture perceived the world. If both the concepts are to be taken into account, it seems that world view and culture are strongly linked. Furthermore, assuming perception would underlie most thoughts, one might conclude that world view may underlie other ideas related to principle and causal beliefs. Of course, being more deeply ingrained, it is doubtful that world view would often change resulting in a constant effect on the decisions made by international actors. However, understanding the different world views actors hold might enable us to better predict how they would interact with each other.

                Causal beliefs and principle beliefs appear to work in unison to influence the decisions of the world. States might act more or less out of self-interest based on their principle beliefs. Causal beliefs would shape their actions in terms of their belief as to which would be the best way to reach their goals. It also seems that causal beliefs may influence principle beliefs. An actor viewing the international arena as one of anarchy (or a version of Hobbes’ “war of each against everyone” as mentioned in Leviathan) might think that having fewer principles of self-interest would lead to the detriment of the actor and they might adjust their principles as a result. Other than reacting out of a need to survive, an actor might adjust their principles based on their perceive fairness of the world. 

                It also seems likely that some actions seemingly stemming from a lack of self-interest might in reality result from motivations best described by the economic idea of enlightened self-interest in which one might act to aid others but ultimately is still acting for their own benefit. This was discussed at length during the live session in our group and self-interest being the main motivation of the actions of international actors was the overall consensus. World views, principles, and causal beliefs all seem to work together to shape the actions of international actors and determine the extent to which they will act out of self-interest.

                Something else of note that I found in the work of Goldstein and Keohane tied their ideas with something noticeable in Weber’s work. On page 14 Goldstein and Keohane point out how an idea was used along the lines of their “roadmap pathway” to influence policy. They stated that the idea influenced policy because it was accepted by individuals in key positions of influence. I thought this illustrated the effect influence and power might have on the prevalence of ideas within the international community or at least within nations. Weber, for example, pointed out the prevalence of western ideas within the international community and seemed to imply that this was a sign of the superiority of those ideas. However, their prevalence may have simply been due to western nations gaining greater power and influence in the international community. There are many factor that came into play leading up to the establishment of many of the colonial empires that allowed western culture to stretch so far. The degree to which western ideas benefited the western nations in achieving their dominance is debatable when compared to other factors beyond their ability to control. As such, this seems to illustrate how the power and influence possessed by an entity might allow them to push their ideas and beliefs onto others and effect policy on an international scale. Put simply, sometimes an idea isn’t prevalent or used because it is good but rather because it was thought of by someone of influence or power.     

Interests

So, while attempting to avoid rereading Max Weber to find out what I missed (I've had to read too many Germans recently. My head is full of Clausewitz for another class outside of this curriculum.), I started to ponder the ideas and interests question. In an attempt to make some real world connections, I started to think about how policy, the actual manifestations of our theoretical discussions, is created.

Naturally, the way policy is created differs between states. There are also differences over time. For this post I want to look at modern democracies. I would suggest that the policy development cycle in North Korea could be summed up by what kind of day Kim Jong-un is having. The thoughts of your average North Korean peasant (since they are surely not treated as citizens) probably don't have much effect on policy.

However, a modern democracy is supposed to be derived from the people. How accurately this happens is an open question. However, I think I can point to some situations where policy was clearly influenced by ideas within the population and not some hard calculation of interests.

The one I will look at now is the divestment movement regarding South Africa during Apartheid. Prior to the divestment movement, the US had ties with South Africa in the context of the Cold War. I argue that this was classic interest based policy. However, during the 1980s the divestment movement gained popularity throughout the US, and culminated with the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986. Interestingly enough, the act was vetoed by Reagan but overriden by Congress.

Although claims can be made that by imposing sanctions against South Africa the US was in fact furthering its interests because it was maintaining the narrative that the US supports freedom and democracy world wide, as opposed to the Soviet Union. However, I believe that the Reagan veto represents the 'interest' side and the override represented the 'ideas' side.

Can ideas and intrests be separated?

So this is my first semester working toward my Masters in International Relations and I've realized what the biggest hurdle has been so far - the use of language.  Bear with me now, generally before any IR classes, if I've heard the word "anarchy" it conjures up images of rioting in the streets, looting, all kinds of criminal activity based on the notion that "I want what you have and since I am stronger than you, I will take that which I want from you."  It did not make me think of people just all acting in their own self-interest in any kind of non-violent fashion.  Talking about the "natural state of man" conjures up images of Adam and Eve in the garden and families banding together for survival, sometimes even images of native tribes.  Not every person separate from every other person, which frankly sometimes sounds nice, but let's face it, would lead to extinction.  So I've determined that the use of language outside of IR and the use of language in IR are very different, sometimes contradictory and very confusing when one is first starting out.

Now, that being said, the discussion of ideas (as inter-subjective cultural standards) and interests (as a calculated way to get what it is you want) has lead me to the conclusion that they are both so intertwined that trying to separate them is practically impossible.  It seems to me that in our interconnected society, anyone who is trying to further their own interests must do so in a way that is socially acceptable or face some kind of online backlash.  I don't want to get too far into how social media has been a game-changer, but people's perceptions of organizations, businesses and politics has become something to consider more than before, simply because information comes out in "real time."  Now I'm basing this on what I've seen on social media sites, online news sites and search-engines-turned-news-sites (looking at you, yahoo).  Basically, in furthering one's interests part of that calculation has to be what cultural considerations one can use to justify the actions that have been taken in order to further that interest. 

I picture a scale with ideas on one end, interests on the other and a straight line connecting both.  In determining a state's actions to be ideas or interest-driven, one would be able to mark on the graph which way the action leaned toward, but it would be somewhere on the scale.  Very few people act altruistically, and I've never heard of an entire country being altruistically motivated.  Bringing this back to a previous point, even if one did act purely altruistically, the perceived benefit from a PR standpoint would mar the act itself.  So to answer my own question, no, I don't think that it's possible to separate interests from ideas, but I do think it's possible to determine what ideas have been used to justify a state's pursuit of a certain interest.